Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> writes:
On 7/17/2026 11:44 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jul 2026 14:43:32 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Gonna be dark until 8 am or so in the winter. Still, stopping the
stupid time changes will be a relief.
If you’re far enough from the equator for it to matter, then it
becomes a choice between waking up when it’s still dark, versus
staying in bed while it gets light. Or alternatively, going to bed
when it’s still light, versus staying up after it’s already dark.
Which would you prefer? Because you can’t legislate either the tilt of
the Earth’s axis, or the way human biological clocks work.
What I find stupid about the whole thing is the suggestion is to go >>permanent DST. What is wrong with Standard Time?
At my lat/long, DST simply makes more sense for both winter and
summer.
Using ST, the summer solstice dawn would begin before 0400, sunrise at 0600, and set before 2000 - DST shifts both forward an hour.
Using DST, the winter dawn breaks at 0430 on
the shortest day, sunrise at 0722 and sunset near 1700 instead of 1600.
It really depends on how you are positioned in a timezone. Perhaps
six timezones instead of three would aleviate those difficulties (but
would likely be a very difficult transition from the current three).
On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 04:53:49 GMT, Crryptoengineer wrote:
Agreed, being at the eastern or western edge of a timezone makes an
hours difference in daylight.
Timezones aren’t necessarily 15° wide, or even centred around the corresponding mean solar time, or anywhere near it. Quite often their demarcations are determined by political issues.
For example, when flying from Kuala Lumpur to Jakarta, there is a net eastward change in longitude, yet you set your clock back by an hour
when you get there.
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) posted:
ERROR "unexpected byte sequence starting at index 83: '\xE2'" while decoding:
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> writes:
On 7/17/2026 11:44 PM, Lawrence DâOliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jul 2026 14:43:32 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Gonna be dark until 8 am or so in the winter. Still, stopping the
stupid time changes will be a relief.
If youâre far enough from the equator for it to matter, then it
becomes a choice between waking up when itâs still dark, versus
staying in bed while it gets light. Or alternatively, going to bed
when itâs still light, versus staying up after itâs already dark.
Which would you prefer? Because you canât legislate either the tilt of
the Earthâs axis, or the way human biological clocks work.
What I find stupid about the whole thing is the suggestion is to go
permanent DST. What is wrong with Standard Time?
At my lat/long, DST simply makes more sense for both winter and
summer.
Using ST, the summer solstice dawn would begin before 0400, sunrise at 0600, >> and set before 2000 - DST shifts both forward an hour.
Using DST, the winter dawn breaks at 0430 on
the shortest day, sunrise at 0722 and sunset near 1700 instead of 1600.
It really depends on how you are positioned in a timezone. Perhaps
six timezones instead of three would aleviate those difficulties (but
would likely be a very difficult transition from the current three).
The continental US has 4 timezones.
Agreed, being at the eastern or western edge of a timezone makes an hours >difference in daylight. There really isn't an elegant solution. I'd prefer whatever
setting puts solar noon closest to clock noon.
Verily, in article <ge0q5lpp3j982qs00c7ej5qgho89n5a7cq@4ax.com>, did psperson@old.netcom.invalid deliver unto us this message:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2026 22:09:59 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D?Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
The whole point with the clock changeovers is precisely to try to
maintain some rough synchronization with that sunrise time, I would
think.
The original point was to keep Defence Plants working longer hours
because the light lasted longer. There was, after all, a war on.
The version I've heard is that it was for farmers, so they would have
more daylight in the winter.
With either version or any other, there are still exactly the same
number of minutes of daylight in any given day. Renumbering them doesn't
save or lose anything. If some enterprises want to adjust their hours of operation with the calendar, they should adjust their own schedules
instead of altering the clock.
The continental US has 4 timezones.That would be Standard Time.
Agreed, being at the eastern or western edge of a timezone makes an hours >difference in daylight. There really isn't an elegant solution. I'd prefer whatever
setting puts solar noon closest to clock noon.
On 2026-07-18, Scott Lurndal wrote:This may help: <https://www.timeanddate.com/time/standard-time.html>
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> writes:
On 7/17/2026 11:44 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jul 2026 14:43:32 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Gonna be dark until 8 am or so in the winter. Still, stopping the
stupid time changes will be a relief.
If you’re far enough from the equator for it to matter, then it
becomes a choice between waking up when it’s still dark, versus
staying in bed while it gets light. Or alternatively, going to bed
when it’s still light, versus staying up after it’s already dark.
Which would you prefer? Because you can’t legislate either the tilt of >>>> the Earth’s axis, or the way human biological clocks work.
What I find stupid about the whole thing is the suggestion is to go >>>permanent DST. What is wrong with Standard Time?
At my lat/long, DST simply makes more sense for both winter and
summer.
Using ST, the summer solstice dawn would begin before 0400, sunrise at 0600, >> and set before 2000 - DST shifts both forward an hour.
Using DST, the winter dawn breaks at 0430 on
the shortest day, sunrise at 0722 and sunset near 1700 instead of 1600.
It really depends on how you are positioned in a timezone. Perhaps
six timezones instead of three would aleviate those difficulties (but
would likely be a very difficult transition from the current three).
I can't help but feel that "ST" isn't a good abbreviation to use here, >because if one looks at some timezones, ST surely means "Summer Time"
(cf. EET-EEST, CET-CEST, WET-WEST), yet given the "DST" I suppose this
is about the wording used in e.g. US timezone names, "Standard Time"
(even though there you'd probably call summer time "DT", not "DST")...
Is there any established way to refer to these that's better?
On 7/19/2026 10:55 AM, The True Melissa wrote:Remember the trouble businesses had getting workers to come back to
Verily, in article <ge0q5lpp3j982qs00c7ej5qgho89n5a7cq@4ax.com>, didAgreed.
psperson@old.netcom.invalid deliver unto us this message:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2026 22:09:59 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D?Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
The whole point with the clock changeovers is precisely to try to
maintain some rough synchronization with that sunrise time, I would
think.
The original point was to keep Defence Plants working longer hours
because the light lasted longer. There was, after all, a war on.
The version I've heard is that it was for farmers, so they would have
more daylight in the winter.
With either version or any other, there are still exactly the same
number of minutes of daylight in any given day. Renumbering them doesn't
save or lose anything. If some enterprises want to adjust their hours of
operation with the calendar, they should adjust their own schedules
instead of altering the clock.
On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 07:18:51 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
On 7/19/2026 10:55 AM, The True Melissa wrote:
Verily, in article <ge0q5lpp3j982qs00c7ej5qgho89n5a7cq@4ax.com>, didAgreed.
psperson@old.netcom.invalid deliver unto us this message:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2026 22:09:59 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D?Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
The whole point with the clock changeovers is precisely to try to
maintain some rough synchronization with that sunrise time, I would
think.
The original point was to keep Defence Plants working longer hours
because the light lasted longer. There was, after all, a war on.
The version I've heard is that it was for farmers, so they would have
more daylight in the winter.
With either version or any other, there are still exactly the same
number of minutes of daylight in any given day. Renumbering them doesn't >>> save or lose anything. If some enterprises want to adjust their hours of >>> operation with the calendar, they should adjust their own schedules
instead of altering the clock.
Remember the trouble businesses had getting workers to come back to
the office after the pandemic ended?
And you want them to do this twice every year?
I'm not. I think that businesses should simply set their hours however
they want _without_ changing them twice a year.
| Sysop: | Rassilon |
|---|---|
| Location: | Rio Rico, Az. |
| Users: | 6 |
| Nodes: | 4 (0 / 4) |
| Uptime: | 191:51:51 |
| Calls: | 12 |
| Messages: | 9,104 |